176 Comments

Who is liberated in the west?

It is time to stop talking about women because the ones who have been liberated in the west do not wear dresses. If there is anyone who has won points from the women’s liberation movements, it certainly has got to be men. At every turn he leaps ahead, is promoted, is listened to in the workplace, and is catered to inside and outside of marriage, not only by the legal Justice System and Government politics, but also by the women of society.

 

Feminists try to copy him, and this must make him feel even more superior. He has enjoyed up until now the best of both the worlds. Certainly, the western lives in a “man’s world” that has been described by some as a paradise for men.

 

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About Imran Ali

IMRAN ALI, is an up-coming writer and columnist. His studies were interrupted when he, as a child of 14, simply told his father M. Sulemen, a businessman, that he just can't get what his school teacher teaches paying little attention to the weak students of the class. So, on a promise that he'll 'study at home' he never again saw the face of the school, though he carried his studies well to fullfill the promise of his; his experience as a volunteer(a dedicated social worker) provided him with material for his articles and writings. He first gained attention with ''Aurangzed as he was'' and ''New world Order 'Vs' Just world Order'' (September 2011, The Companion, English monthly, and several other magazines), probably his finest articles. Next 10 year he coming with his debut novel, and is fully dedicated on it's research. Taken together, his articles present a broad, naturalistic picture of Indian life. His subjects include History, the Indian peasantry, the bureaucracy, life of a downtrodden Indians and have nots, the emotional problems of the different classes, and, ominously, hallucination, Very new in Style and to Approach, Combining psychoanalysis with human behaviour. His writings well captures the collective psyche of the world as a whole. He's been a district level boxer. Known as a peoples magnet in his vast friends circle, and a booklover who humorously with pride discloses, '' I've read over hundreds of books relating to arts, literature, science, metaphysics, naturopathy and psychlogy. So, the conclusion here is easy to derive, that i, who was raised from childhood in a modern muslim belief have been mostly preferring reading all kinds of books rather than writing!'' His reading since childhood, has been mostly centered around knowing the truths[truth here means of all kinds humans ever categorized, mysteries and human psyche has given me a better understanding of the human soul, mind and spirit in collaboration with my Islamic teachings.] Since he started his reading at the age of 15 reading Stories of literary giants, like Leo tolstoy, George Orwell, and Guy de muppasant and many Indian masters like Sir Mohammed Iqbal(The Poet Of the East), Margret Marcus, Leopold weiss, and Manto. And their collective influence made me search for my own moorings, adapting my father's style of srorytelling. In the beginning, there was nothing magnificent in acquiring all this, from books, as it was nothing more beside his own interest, and his interest to help morally deprived and confused men he used to meet in parties and gatherings. And amazingly, only a few years back, an up an coming, extraordinarily talented writer and one of his closest friends of his, who always loved his ideas gave rise to a writer hiding somewhere inside him. When while sipping the tea he insisted him to collect his ideas in a diary which keep on counselling youngmen of varieties every third day resulting in a great interruption in our appointed informational communication. Suddenly, at the very instinct, the idea occured in his mind of writing down these ideas effectively, concisely and pertaining to the questions of todays' youth who are short of time resolving them. And with him as his inspiration, he picked up the pen, and started unfolding, writing in the name of the architect of this whole universe. Which is none other than ''Allah.''

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176 comments on “Who is liberated in the west?

  1. NOTE: The purpose of above arguments is just to highlight the inequal rights and status of men and women, and the subordinate and subservient position of women, and the superior position of men; and not to demand equality or change in the Divine laws. And they r just a few examples. Islam follows the patriarchy which clearly implies the power and authority of men over women, thus making them second class citizens in almost all walks of life. Anyway,if men and women r treated equally everywhere in Quran, then, where these inequalities have come from?

  2. And remember, whatever logics r there behind such partial treatment, u can only justify it with their help, but cant deny the fact altogether.

  3. Argument is conclusive… but… it does not remove doubt, so that the mind may rest in the sure knowledge of the truth, unless it finds it by the method of experiment. For if any man who never saw fire proved by satisfactory arguments that fire burns. his hearer’s mind would never be satisfied, nor would he avoid the fire until he put his hand in it that he might learn by experiment what argument taught.

  4. Aslamualykum Sis Shakira..Masha Allah you are a good writter and debater.I hope Insha Allah your talent will be helpful for Islam.There are many question posed by you insha Allah i will reply it in short.Sis first of all you should be complete aware of the genralize fitra of women.For example there was a survey by B.B.C which says that “women are more emotional in nature” ,women are physically weak,She fell shyness more then male(Talking about Islamic fitrah) etc.These are the fact which you cant deny.So most of the Islamic laws regarding women suit the nature of women.And for the sake of argument if i will say ,yes man are given more rights then women then also i can say definetly its only for the our betterment…….for eg my parents have more rights then me,my seniors have more right then me etc.In the same way man had more right then women.Our creator knows me and you better then ourseives .He knows which right will be beneficial for me and which right will be beneficial for you..So sister responsiblities or rights are only beneficial for us,when its output is beneficial.And i think there is a no need of more debate or argument on this topic…
    Sister you had also posed a question why Allah says himself “He” in quran,sister for knowing that you should know little Arabic..
    1)In arabic no neutral gender..
    2)In arabic she is used for those thing which are in pair for eg hand,eye etc..You and me knows that Allah is not in pair.Allah says “Kul ho wallahu ahad”.
    3)In arabic she is used for those arabic word which ends with “toon” ,and you know well that word Allah does not end with “toon”..So Allah has used an appropriate word for himself..I hope you gt the answer.Jazak Allah.

    • I am not denying the differences between man and woman…this argument would not have gone so far if u people had not insisted that men and women have equal rights, that women r not subordibated…well, the points given by u here can be debated further , there r many things where neither physical ability, nor being emotional has anything to do, they r just the matter of more authority and liberties…but i dont think anything new will come out of it…so its better be closed now

    • The word “He” does refer to a particular gender. So, when this is used for Allah, it definitely gives him the masculine character. Then, how is He gender-less?

      • Assalamu ‘alaikumSister,in Qur’an it says explicitely that there is nothing like llah or co equal to Allah so ascribing attribute of creation to Allah like genders ,isn’t the right creed and contradicts the belief of Islam.

        “””””[He is] Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you from yourselves, mates, and among the cattle, mates; He multiplies you thereby. There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.[42:11]”

        He here is the grammatical He,as there are only two genders in arabic language shamsy(sun)[female] and qamary(moon)[male].
        Every word is grouped in these two,there is not a third gender,according to the rule it fulfills (either shamsy or qamary).
        It would go against the creed of Islam to attribute gender to Allah.

    • Deprivation doesnt serve for betterment…and it can be felt only by those who r deprived….u can never understand it…being at a higher position and justifying the lower position of others is the easiest task

  5. @Kashif nazeer…i m not, naoozubillah, attributing any gender to Allah..i have firm belief that he is free from it….i just asked for explanation because someone asked me the same question

  6. for the upholders and propagators of men-women equality in islam…i want to add another point in the list of “(in)equalities” pointed out by sis shakiranomani, and that is, Quran permits husband to beat wife, are women also given any such right over men in any matter?

    • To start with, Let me clarify that Quran does not give permission to beat wives. If you take the arabic word used of the verse in question, along with the hadith description associated with it, the act is best described by Dr, Bilal Philips as just a tap to show the seriousness of the matter, and that too as a last resort just before the decision of divorce is taken, in order to save the marriage.

      Now, the same is not prescribed for the woman, as generally speaking a man has more physical strength than the woman, and there is a threat that if a woman takes that step, the man may get physical in response creating even more problems for the wife. Infact something different is prescribed for her and that is bring a arbitrator from her family, i.e. get her family involved in the matter in order to save the marriage.

      I have repeatedly that men and women are equal. But equality does not mean identicality. They are equal but not identical, and God has prescribed the best laws that suit them.

      • negating the truth or creating illusions does not change the reality, or make it better….and the reality is that everywhere, woman is given a subservient role with man always having an upper hand in almost all matters…..enough instances of “(in)equality” are already being discussed here, and more can be given

      • first negate and refute them if you can…

      • “Quran does not give permission to beat wives”
        Its in complete contradiction to the words of the quran which clearly gives permission, in very clear words, to do so.

  7. “Islam does not believe in the ideas of
    freedom, liberation, or equality of the
    woman”

    Its clearly written in the latest article published on this blog by Abu Khaled Al Hejazi.

  8. As I had mentioned earlier in the comments of this article, Read Dr. Jamal Badawi’s Gender Equity. InshaAllah most of the points raised would be answered http://soundvision.com/Info/gender/

  9. The book is written from a male perspective and i couldn’t find any answer to the points raised above.

  10. For example, take the question of man being permitted to beat wife. Even if we take this modern interpretition of disguising beating as tapping, even if we take it as a friendly tapping, is the woman also allowed to “tap” man in the same manner, for his lewdness or disloyality? or only women can be accused of such behaviour? are men always right and perfect? Moreover, u r justifying it as a last resort to prevent divorce. What about providing women with the same measures to avoid ‘khula’? A man has the “right to punish” woman by “refusing to sleep with” her, but the same thing on the part of woman is a sin and a punishable offence? what about this “right to punish”? what equivalent right does a woman possess?
    I am sorry but it does not confirm to any definition of “Equality” i have read so far

    • I answered this already. Let me quote again. Now, the same is not prescribed for the woman, as generally speaking a man has more physical strength than the woman, and there is a threat that if a woman takes that step, the man may get physical in response creating even more problems for the wife. The same applies to leaving the bed. If the husband is not good, he may resort to forceful sex causing even more problem for the wife. Infact something different is prescribed for her and that is bring a arbitrator from her family, i.e. get her family involved in the matter in order to save the marriage.

      • why only woman has to depend on arbitrator? cant a man also follow the same measure?…why is he given additional rights to punish woman by himself, if not to establish his superiority over woman and woman’s lower status?

  11. “And they (women) have rights (over
    their husbands as regards living
    expenses) similar (to those of their
    husbands) over them (as regards
    obedience and respect) to what is
    reasonable, but men have a degree (of
    responsibility) over them. And Allaah is
    All-Mighty, All-Wise”
    [al-Baqarah 2:228]
    “Men are the protectors and
    maintainers of women, because Allaah
    has made one of them to excel the
    other, and because they spend (to
    support them) from their means.
    Therefore the righteous women are
    devoutly obedient (to Allaah and to
    their husbands), and guard in the
    husband’s absence what Allaah orders
    them to guard (e.g. their chastity and
    their husband’s property). As to those
    women on whose part you see ill-
    conduct, admonish them (first), (next)
    refuse to share their beds, (and last)
    beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if
    they return to obedience, seek not
    against them means (of annoyance).
    Surely, Allaah is Ever Most High, Most
    Great”
    [al-Nisa’ 4:34]
    And the Prophet (peace and blessings
    of Allaah be upon him) said: “If I were
    to command anyone to prostrate to
    anyone other than Allaah, I would have
    commanded women to prostrate to
    their husbands. By the One in Whose
    hand is the soul of Muhammad, no
    woman can fulfil her duty towards
    Allaah until she fulfils her duty towards ah, 1853; classed
    as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn
    Maajah.

  12. Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on
    him) said in his Tafseer (1/363): “The
    phrase ‘but men have a degree (of
    responsibility) over them’ means that
    they are superior in physical nature,
    attitude, status, obedience to the
    commands of Allaah, spending, taking
    care of interests, and virtue, in this
    world and in the Hereafter, as Allaah
    says (interpretation of the meaning):
    ‘Men are the protectors and
    maintainers of women, because Allaah
    has made one of them to excel the
    other, and because they spend (to
    support them) from their means’
    [al-Nisa’4:34].” End quote.
    He also said (1/653): “Allaah says
    (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Men
    are the protectors and maintainers of
    women’ meaning that men are in
    charge of women, i.e., they are their
    leaders, who rule over them and
    discipline them if they go astray.
    ‘because Allaah has made one of them
    to excel the other’ means, because
    men are superior to women, and men
    are better than women. Hence
    Prophethood was given to men only, as
    is the highest position of authority (i.e.,
    khilaafah or the position of caliph),
    because the Prophet (peace and
    blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:
    “No people will ever succeed who
    appoint a woman as their ruler.”
    Narrated by al-Bukhaari from the
    hadeeth of ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Abi
    Bakr from his father. The same applies
    to the position of judge etc. ‘and
    because they spend (to support them)
    from their means’ means, because of
    the mahr, spending and maintenance
    that Allaah has enjoined upon men with
    regard to women in His Book and in the
    Sunnah of His Prophet (peace and
    blessings of Allaah be upon him). So
    men are better than women in and of
    themselves, and they have the
    responsibility to spend on them and
    maintain them, so it is appropriate that
    the man should be the protector and
    maintainer of the woman, as Allaah
    says (interpretation of the meaning):
    ‘but men have a degree (of
    responsibility) over them’, i.e., they are
    in charge of them. She should obey him
    in that which he commands her to do.

  13. Al-Baghawi said in his Tafseer (2/206):
    “ ‘because Allaah has made one of
    them to excel the other’ means, men
    excel women because they have more
    powers of reason and religious
    commitment and they are in charge of
    affairs. And it was said that this refers
    to giving testimony, because Allaah
    says (interpretation of the meaning):
    ‘And if there are not two men
    (available), then a man and two
    women’ [al-Baqarah 2:282]. And it was
    said that it refers to jihad, or to worship
    i.e., Jumu’ah and prayers in
    congregation, or that it refers to the
    fact that a man may marry four wives,
    but a woman is not permitted more
    than one husband; or the fact that
    divorce is in the man’s hand; or that it
    refers to inheritance, or to diyah (blood
    money), or to Prophethood.”
    Al-Baydaawi said in his Tafseer (2/184):
    “ ‘Men are the protectors and
    maintainers of women’ means that they
    are in charge of them and take care of
    them. He gave two reasons for that,
    one that is inherent in them and one
    that is acquired subsequently, and said:
    ‘because Allaah has made one of them
    to excel the other’, because Allaah has
    favoured men over women by making
    men more perfect in reasoning and
    running affairs, and has given them
    more strength with regard to work and
    acts of worship. Hence men are singled
    out when it comes to Prophethood,
    leadership, guardianship, establishing
    rituals, giving testimony in legal
    matters, the obligation t o engage in
    jihad and pray Jumu’ah, and so on, and
    they are given a greater share of
    inheritance, and divorce is in the man’s
    hand. End quote

  14. Bukhari (72:715) – A woman came to
    Muhammad and begged her to stop
    her husband from beating her. Her skin
    was bruised so badly that it is
    described as being “greener” than the
    green veil she was wearing.
    Muhammad did not admonish her
    husband, but instead ordered her to
    return to him and submit to his sexual
    desires.

    Abu Dawud (2142) – “The Prophet
    (peace be upon him) said: A man will
    not be asked as to why he beat his
    wife.”

    Qur’an (38:44) – “And take in your
    hand a green branch and beat her with
    it, and do not break your oath…” Allah
    telling Job to beat his wife.

    are these right or wrong?

  15. I have no intention to go against ALLAH or islam (God forbid!), but i just cant accept your version of “Equality”.

  16. As for tafseer, no one is obliged to follow ibn katheer’s interpretations. There are many scholars (including Yusuf Ali) who interpret the verse as being above in responsibility.

    And there are other tafsir as well. this is how Ibn Abbas (ra) interpretted it

    Al-Tabari in his Tafsir narrated from Ibn `Abbas: “The daraja mentioned by Allah Most High here is the *forfeiting, on the man’s part, of some his wife’s obligations towards him* and his indulgence towards her, while he is *fully obligated to fulfill all his obligations towards her*, because the verse came right after { And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness} . Hence Ibn `Abbas said: ‘I would not like to obtain all (astanzif) of my right from her because Allah Most High said { and men are a degree above them} .'”

    As for the ahadith, they have been quoted out of context. Let me explain them one by one

    • if its not obliged for anyone to follow ibn-e-katheer’s interpretitions, is it obliged to follow the interpretitions of those who have added/inserted this (in responsibility) clause in the Quran at their own?….it seems as if the right to interpret Quran and ahadeeth also lies with men only and women should follow and believe the way they like it to be irrespective of what really a thing is!!

  17. And the Prophet (peace and blessings
    of Allaah be upon him) said: “If I were
    to command anyone to prostrate to
    anyone other than Allaah, I would have
    commanded women to prostrate to
    their husbands. By the One in Whose
    hand is the soul of Muhammad, no
    woman can fulfil her duty towards
    Allaah until she fulfils her duty towards ah, 1853; classed
    as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn
    Maajah.

    The hadith shows that prostration is forbidden as it has come to be taken as an act of worship. And acts of worship are only directed towards Allah alone

    But if it was not so,he would have commanded the women to prostrate towards their husbands. Now does that show that men are greater than women? Quran gives the answer from the times when this was not taken as an act of worship

    And he (Joseph) raised his parents high on the throne (of dignity), and they fell down in prostration, (all) before him. [Quran 12:100]

    Surely Prophet Joseph (PBUH) was not greater than his father, prophet Jacob (PBUH). It was only an act of greeting and respect.

    As for being dutiful towards the husband, then even husbands are commanded to give women their rights in other ahadith.

    • the example of prophet Joseph and his parents is totally out of context, i dont think u need to be told the difference between this incident of prostration and the implication of the prostration talked of in the hadith

  18. Bukhari (72:715) – A woman came to
    Muhammad and begged her to stop
    her husband from beating her. Her skin
    was bruised so badly that it is
    described as being “greener” than the
    green veil she was wearing.
    Muhammad did not admonish her
    husband, but instead ordered her to
    return to him and submit to his sexual
    desires.

    This is not what the hadith says. Let me quote the actual hadith

    Narrated ‘Ikrima:
    Rifa’a divorced his wife whereupon ‘AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. ‘Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah’s Apostle came, ‘Aisha said, “I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. look! her skin is greener than her clothes!.” When ‘AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, “By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this,” holding and showing the fringe of her garment, ‘Abdur-Rahman said, “By Allah, O Allah’s Apostle! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa’a.” Allah’s Apostle said, to her, “If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa’a unless ‘Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you.” Then the Prophet saw two boys with ‘Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), “Are these your sons?” On that ‘AbdurRahman said, “Yes.” The Prophet said, “You claim what you claim (i.e. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow,”

    some points frm the hadith4

    1- The man failed to follow Noble Verse 4:34 which was sent by Allah Almighty to protect women from harmfull men.

    2- The woman was trying to get back with her first husband. In Islam, if a woman gets divorced or divorces herself from her husband through the Islamic court by “Khala'”, then the only way she can get back with her husband, or her husband gets back to her is by HER MARRYING ANOTHER PERSON, HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH HIM, AND THEN GET A DIVORCE FROM HIM. This is to guarantee that divorce would not be a joke among Muslims.

    3- The woman was claiming that her second husband was sexually no good. The husband disputed that, and brought his two sons from another marriage as a proof that he can perform sex. The Prophet peace be upon him then told the woman “by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow”.

    4- Aisha’s opinion about the woman’s bruise doesn’t prove or disprove anything. She got angry because she saw another woman badly beaten, which is perfectly fine.

    The prophet did prohibit men from beating women

    Narrated Mu’awiyah al-Qushayri: “I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them.”
    (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)

    • the incident was quoted not to probe into the reasons behind such severe beating, but to emphasize the fact that Prophet did not admonish him for beating her.

    • Wow…what a patriarchal interpretition! Now the words of the Prophet’s most beloved wife, one of the mother of Ummah, an eminent narrator of a great number of ahadith hold no value because they r said in support of a woman suffered at the hands of a man!..they r said not because she realised and felt the women’s plight but she said so just because it was a habit among women to support each other!..she said it without having meant it, just out of an “irrational habit”! Thus, her words holds no value to be taken seriously. Had she said something in support of patriarchy, then her words would have been counted as bounding upon women because, then they would have taken in high esteem as the words of a great islamic scholar, then they would have given due respect as the words of the mother of the Ummah…but in this matter, she is taken just as any woman in general…her special status no more exist!!!

  19. Abu Dawud (2142) – “The Prophet
    (peace be upon him) said: A man will
    not be asked as to why he beat his
    wife.”

    To start with, the correct translation would be ‘hit’ and not ‘beat’.

    In regards to Allah Almighty will not ask a man why he hit his wife, this is as long as the man does not violate the Law of Noble Verse 4:34. The Hadith proofs clearly that cruel beating and beating someone in the face is strictly forbidden in Islam. Secondly there is proof (see: Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage Kitab Al-Nikah, Number 2138 and 2139 & Riyad as-Salihin, chapter 34, ‘Treating women well’) that it is the right of the Muslim wife that she is not to be hit except in the case of nushooz (repeated rebellion against the husband’s authority, mentioned in Quran verse 4:34). Even in that case, the husband is only allowed to “hit” her, but in a way which does no harm, (not in the face and not painfull, mentioned by the prophet in his last speech at the Farewell Haji). BUT because the prophet discouraged this option and warned those men who hit their wives (see hadith: Riyad as Saliheen, chapter 34, ‘treating women well’,Nr. 279) it is stated that : ‘hitting your wife lightly in this situation is only permitted when one is reasonably sure that there will be general benefit in it and this benefit is greater than the associated harms ‘(this is mentioned in ‘Sultan al-Ulama Izz Ibn Abd al-Salam’ quoted by Ibn Allan al-Bakri in his Sharh Riyad al-Salihin and quoted by many other great scholar in islam’s history),

    So we clearly proofed in which situation a husband is allowed to hit his wife lightly, in this case ‘a husband will not be asked by Allah to why he hit his wife’ , because Islam doesn’t accept any other reason then the situation of Noble vers 4:34 for hitting ones wife. But if a man hits his wife in any other situaton then Noble verse 4:34, then he will also ‘not be asked to why he hit his wive’ , but he will be punished for this without further question, because he cearly violated the laws of Allah swt in the Noble Quran and the Sunna of the Prophet:

    “…Do not retain them (i.e., your wives) to harm them …(The Noble Quran, 2:231)”

    Narrated Mu’awiyah al-Qushayri: “I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)”

    “…on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (The Noble Quran, 4:19)”

    “If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband’s part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men’s souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, God is well-acquainted with all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:128)”

    “And among God’s signs is this: He created for you mates from amongst yourselves (males as mates for females and vice versa) that you might find tranquillity and peace in them. And he has put love and kindness among you. Herein surely are signs for those who reflect. (The Noble Quran 30:21)”

    A mean man to his wife is a violator to Noble Verse 30:21 and the Sunna of the prophet. An abusive man to his wife is a violator to Noble Verses 2:231 , 4:19 and the sunna of the prophet (peace be upon him).

    When a husband deals with his wife, he must always “fear Allah and know that he will meet Him” someday and be held accountable for every atom of positive and negative he did to his wife:

    “Then shall anyone who has done an atom’s weight of good, see it! And anyone who has done an atom’s weight of evil, shall see it. (The Noble Quran, 99:7-8)”

  20. Qur’an (38:44) – “And take in your
    hand a green branch and beat her with
    it, and do not break your oath…” Allah
    telling Job to beat his wife.

    Again the actual traslation is hit. Hitting with a green branch is even lighter than a tap. Its only symbolic fulfillment of the oath with no consequence at all, even though she must have wronged him, because of which the prophet of God had taken the oath.

    If I have missed any hadith, then plz requote so that I can clarify, InshaAllah. And plz refrain from looking in anti-Islamic websites, that quote out of context.

  21. if the measures allowed for men cant suit the both according to your interpretition, what about the measure provided for women? It doesnt suit men? if it does, then why different measures are prescribed, if not to give one authority over the other?

  22. if u r unable to see such apparent “(in)equalities”, then it is either because u intentionally trying to overlook them, or u dont know the meaning of “equality”

  23. and yes, the prostration do imply superiority and the hadeeth clearly establishes the superiority of men…why that’s not said vice versa? even in the terms of the possibilty of a thing, men r kept above women, why it could not have been the otherwise, men asked to prostrate before women, if its not the matter of superiority?

  24. if prostration just reflects respect and greeting, cant women be given the respect and greeting? does only men deserve to get respect and greeting?

  25. Let me start by explaining what I mean by equality.

    As I have repeatedly mentioned, equality does not mean identicality. Let me give the example that Dr. Zakir gives in his talks.

    Suppose 2 students appeared in an exam with 10 subjects. Both get 100 out of 100 in 8 subjects. Out of the remaining two, in 1 subject, student A gets 80, and student B gets 100. In the second one, Student B gets 80 and Student A gets 100. If we calculate, both students get equal marks overall.

    Same is the case with men and women. In some cases men have a degree of advantage, while in others women have. Overall both are equal.

  26. In case of marriage, men are allowed to use a certain measure, which is a gentle tap, to show the seriousness of the matter (as a last resort) in order to save the marriage, without involving any third party, as this might solve the problem between the two of them. If this does not work, even he has to get the arbitrator involved. But as I showed before, the same is not possible in the case of the women, as it can create more problems than solve, so she is directed to the arbitrator, in order to save the marriage.

    • if that tap is so ‘gentle”, then what will be wrong with it if done by woman?…its just “tapping” u know..not hitting or beating..are men so delicate or fragile that they cant bear even a “gentle tap”?

    • is that “tap” harmful or humiliating that men cant bear it and it will worsen the situation?

    • so, a woman dont have the right to show the seriousness of matter even by a gentle tap!!!….well i had a different question too
      “if the measures allowed for men cant suit the both according to your interpretition, what about the measure provided for women? It doesnt suit men? if it does, then why different measures are prescribed, if not to give one authority over the other?”
      what about it?…are the peaceful measures below the dignity of men?

  27. As for prostration, I already showed you an example from the Quran itself to prove my point. Just as Joseph (PBUH) is not greater than Jacob (PBUH), same is the case with the hadith of the woman. Arguing why Joseph did not prostrate to his father Jacob, or didnt Jacob (being the father and the prophet) need respect and greeting is not going to prove anything.

  28. “In some cases men have a degree of advantage, while in others women have.’
    kindly let me know where women have an advantage like this?…what if student A is ENTITLED to get more marks in each paper than student B?…how the aggregate will be equal then?

  29. i had no intention to highlight such things, but if u cant acknowldge the inequalities which do exist, then why should i acknowledge a thing which does not exist!…u r trying to make me accept and feel that i own a palace whereas i own a hut in actuality

  30. and as for ur marks, let me remind u that though there is provision of equal reward and punishment for a virtue or sin for both men and women, men r again entitled to a special and exclusive reward of getting 70 “hoors” in addition to what the women will have…..i would have ovrlooked the inequalities here, if any exclusive reward would have been reserved for women in the hereafter to compensate for their lower standing in the world…but the thing is rather opposite..there is no inversion…deprivation and subordination is reserved for women only….men will always enjoy an upper hand!!!!!!!

  31. In every society, culture and religion, women r subordinated to men, in varying degrees and ways, including ISLAM. I am not saying whether it is right or wrong, but its a fact that women are not given an equal footing with men in Islam as many peoole are insisting and trying to prove by twisting and interpreting things according to their own purpose. But inspite of all their twistings and re-interpretitions, inequalities do exist and thats why they r acknowledging it, but refusing to call them so, and trying to give it a sweet coating by saying that its just that they r dealt with in a different manner. So, if differences account to overall equality, then we should rejoice that no inequalities actually exist in the world. Its just that people have devised different ways to deal with different people in accordance with their religions, cultures, socio-economic conditions, etc.

  32. Now i am confused about the concepts of discrimination, injustice, oppression, subordination, etc. whether they really exist or are just illusions of mind !!!

  33. concept of scoring has no relevance here, its the matter of “entitlement”

  34. concept of scoring has no relevance here, its all about “entitlement”

  35. May I ask what is the idea of ‘Equality’ that the sisters have in mind?

    • Read the complete thread of argument and you will get the idea. Its very simple, straightforward, and realistic, that “Equality” MEANS “Equality”…not fake, twisted and idealised which the brothers here are trying to convince and impose.

      • I’ve already read the thread sister. I’m asking, may be not in context of the above discussion, what is the very simple, straightforward and realistic idea of Equality that you have in mind. I’d really like to know, for better understanding.

  36. I dont have my own personal exclusive definition of equality, moulded according to my own whims or purpose, as people here are trying to do. It’s what Equality generally means. According to Oxford Dictionary of English, the word ‘Equality’ means the fact of being equal in rights, status, advantages, etc. So, “my idea” of Equality is “having ‘EQUAL’ rights, status, authority, advantages, opportunities, liberties, autonomy, value, dignity, having equal treatment. Atleast in similar or the same matters , one should not have advantage over the other.

    • Sorry for the late comment.
      Is the kind of equality defined and described above being practiced anywhere or was being practiced at any time in the history of humankind?

      So, having read what equality means, does it mean that the Physical, Psychological, Biological, Physiological differences between men and women shouldn’t be taken into consideration?? Should both men and women have exactly the same roles and responsibilities and therefore identical rights and duties in the society?

  37. Unfortunately society has set man as the standard, and women comply with the status quo, inevitably compromising their own self worth. The standard is God’s expectations of us as human beings. That is a worthier goal. Western feminism has mostly set women against men, whereas preferably good men and women should together strive to procure rights and equity in a disturbingly unjust world.

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